I didn't see this mentionned here, but did anyone notice the radio transmission between Boone and the unknown male? After Boone identifies himself as the "survivors of Oceanic 815", the voice responds

"We're the survivors of Oceanic 815"

home.comcast.net/~towhateverend/WeAreTheSurvivors.mp3

Hello! I didn't notice that, but I went back and watched my DVR recording several times, and you're right! It's hard to hear over Locke's yelling, but the voice on the radio DOES say "WE'RE the survivors of Oceanic 815."

I need help! My recording cut off the end of the show tonight! The last thing I saw was Kate - on the beach, asking Jack if he wants to talk about it. Will someone please tell me what happened after that? Was there a teaser?

Layna,
The only thing that happened after that was, Kate said, Do you want to talk about it...Boone is DEAD. Jack says, Boone isn't dead...he was murdered. Then he go off, looking for John Locke.

Oh, thank you Christina! I suppose Locke did act suspiciously. But, Jack should consider that murderers don't typically carry their victims to the doctor.

Here's another question - since I've missed an episode or two... What ever happened to the monster storyline? We know something is out there, because it grabbed the pilot from the cockpit. But, we haven't seen anything about the monster in quite a while. Did I miss something?

Princess, I just had a thought on the radio voice. Maybe he was really asking a question. "WE'RE the survivors of flight 815?" Meaning, who is "we"? As if he were asking Boone if someone else was with him.

Layna,

I wondered a lot about that recording when I first saw it. At first I thought the voice said "there were no survivors of Oceanic 815", but after listening to the link I attached, I noticed a few things:

- That voice is CREEPY!!! Very little inflection to the voice at all. It almost sounds mocking. Can't explain it better than that.
- The emphasis of the "we're the survivors" line is placed on the "we're" part. There is no "uplift" of the voice at the end of the sentence to indicate that a question is being asked.

Layna,

You're so right about Jack!! He seems to be jumping to conclusions about Locke. This is what I don't like about Jacks character. He is very hypocritical and self righteous. Knowing that Boone had been in a plane would not have changed the outcome on bit. Also, Boone said to Jack "I've really messed myself up" (or something to that effect). Any secrets Locke has kept beyond that are no different than the secrets Jack/Sayed have kept about the 15 year old transmission...AND Jack was the one who tortured Sawyer!!! Did you notice that nobody ever asked Sawyer if he even had the asthma pump? They just demanded that he hand it over and then tortured him when he didn't. Jack isn't such a good guy...

aztecprincess -- very interesting stuff. The link you posted is awesome.

Here's another twist: In the review I did, I included a transcript of the radio transmission conversation. I actually created this transcript using the closed captioning feature. The closed caption text clearly read "There were no survivors of Oceanic Flight 815" but listening to the mp3 you provided, I have to change my tune: The broadcaster says "WE'RE the survivors ..."

Whoa.

As for Jack and his self righteousness, I think they've tried to play this up as both his blessing and his curse. His dad basically said as much in "Do No Harm's" flashback: Commitment makes Jack tick, but his problem is that he can't let go. His self righteousness appears to be part of his complexity.

Or something like that. All I know is that Locke could plant a knife in his skull from 40 meters away, so Jack best check himself.

I read on another board that closed captioning isn't always correct, and this seems to be the case here. I am not sure if it is a meaningful distinction yet, but I am willing to bet that it is.

May I'm irritated by Jack because Locke is my favorite character, followed closely by Hurley. I don't like the idea of anyone going after either of them!! hahahaha. It's funny because Jack and Kate get the most airtime, yet their characters seem to have the least depth to them (or at least the least interesting depth).

Everyone on the island is a little bizarre though

What about the possibility that a number of people in the plane's tail section survived? Wasn't there a woman who felt her husband was still alive?

Good point Xed. The woman -- Rose -- believed her husband was still alive. I doubt the producers would go out of their way to create a character with such devout belief and then have her beliefs evaporate. Perhaps the other survivors found the radio tower broadcasting Rousseau's distress message?

And if the show goes past X years and the current cast's contracts become too expensive, the catfights ensue, there's always the people on the *other* side of the island.

Wow! I love this idea of the tail section survivors! Is there any likelihood of there being a radio in the tail section? Do large planes have extra radio units in case of emergency?

Hmmm, if there are other survivors,and they do have a radio, why haven't they been able to contact a nearby ship or plane? Why haven't they been rescued?

quote:

Originally posted by aztecprincesse:
I read on another board that closed captioning isn't always correct ...

Yep. I often turn the caps on just to catch lines that are mumbled or covered over by crosstalk or noise. As good as they are, they can be wrong. Sometimes even skipping a sentence or substituting a less objectionable word.

It can be a laugh to have the caps on during a live show due to the misspellings and misinterpretations of the captioner.

Wow. Just... wow! I had closed captioning on when rewatching that scene to hear what was really said and it read "There are no survivors of Oceanic Flight 815" but as someone mentioned, captioning isn't always correct. This is awesome!

Ah yes, live closed captioning: it's where vowels go to die. Sorry, "t's whr vwls g t d."

My boss also just pointed this out: Aren't flight numbers based on the route, not the plane?
Who's to say that this isn't an Oceanic Flight 815 that crashed ... say ... 8 years ago?

Hopefully this works this time, my last post got jacked up again. I'll see if I can ressurrect my thoughts...

Mrs. Spartacus and I have listened to this recording several times. Here are our conclusions:

Voice at the distant end does say "we're the survivors..." as if insisting he believes he represents the ONLY survivors of Oceanic 815, no elation.
Voice is American or Canadian male, no evidence of European or Australian accents (this rules out Sayyid, Charlie, all of the women and Jin)
Boone and the voice are actually conversing with one another. (I say this because there are several times on my CB I can receive and transmit, but my signal strength is too weak to reach some of the signals I hear even though I can hear them clearly).

The aircraft Boone is in is a Beechcraft D-18S, manufactured from about 1937 to 1969. I can tell from the general design and the older dual-stabilizer tail section which is common to vintage aircraft.

Here's what I think. Sometime ago, not necessarily 1937 or 1969, but sometime before our survivors arrived, this aircraft crashed. It can't be too far back in the past though, as evidenced by the Glock or Sig-type 9mm in possession of the priest-corpse. Long enough back, however, for bodies to rot quickly in a tropical climate, but not far enough back to corrode the aircraft or degrade the battery life of the radio (which is probably running off the aircraft battery anyway).

Boone and Locke approach the aircraft which happens to reside in the time it originally crashed. As they approach the plane, Locke's body reverts back to its preexisting condition prior to Oceanic 815's crash, which happens to concide with the timline the Beechcraft exists in. The closer Locke gets to the time the Beechcraft plane is in (and the closer he gets to his original crippled condition) the more his legs give out. Boone, on the other hand, appears fine because we can assume he was healthy at the time of the Beechcraft crash. Its possible Boones body reverted back to a preexisting condition, but not drastically like Locke.

Boone gets into the plane and fires up the radio. He transmits a signal which is received by a distant end reciever. This distant end receiver exists in a timeline current with Oceanic 815. I think this receiver is from the survivors we see on the show. But, Boone's signal travelled out of the Beechcraft time, past Oceanic 815's present, and into Oceanic 815's future, months or even years down the road. Still with me? Not sure I am...

Ok. Let's say the Beechcraft crashed in 1994. Let's say the Oceanic 815 crashed in 2004. Let's say the receiver of Boone's signal exists in 2014. It's possible, given all the other mysteries on this island, that Boone could have walked right into 1994, made a call to 2014 and was answered by 2004 survivors still alive in 2014 and in posession of a transmitter. Maybe the times aren't ten years apart, could be shorter. In any event, whoever was talking back to Boone was using a transmitter strong enough to make a clear transmission, so it has to be pretty close. Probably the one the French woman found. And, he is pretty convinced he is with the sole survivors of the crash of Oceanic 815.

Who's voice is it? Is it Jack's? Sawyer's? Not enough "dude"s to be Hurley. Didn't have a black accent either, so Michael and Walt are out too. Maybe it's Claire's baby, all grown up and living life like a Bounty decendent on Pitcairn Island. I don't know. But I do think it is a voice from one of the cast or player to be named later...not a survivor of the tail section.

Yes, aircraft are named for routes, not their own tail numbers. It is possible the Beechcraft was an older Oceanic 815 and Boone's signal did opposite what I suggested and went back in time to the Beechcraft survivors.

Maybe hurley should take a look and see if his numbers are on that plane anywhere...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: I'm Spartacus!,

My brain hurts

I'm Spartacus I never considered a time warp scenario, but I'm a sucker for that kind of thing and I'd have no problem if that's the direction the show goes in. It opens the door for some very interesting ideas, although I'm sure there's a major part of the audience that would tune out if the time twisting came into play.

Nonetheless, thanks for the background info on the planes and routes!

That is a very VERY cool idea. Pockets of time coexisting with each other on the island. It's Science Fictiony, though, so I wonder if it's feasable in this show's Universe.

I completely understand your explanation, Spartacus. Very well explained.

Going with your idea, the it's possible that the bunker that Locke and Boone found is from a future island. And that Jack's father really WAS on the island, and not just a figment of his imagination, and WAS resurrected in a pocket of time to a previous condition. Although...if Jack's dad was resurrected in one place, wouldn't his body fall apart once he was out of that location?

Hmmm.

(lovin' this idea)

I hear ya, Ittot. The possibilities are endless, which means the story ideas are endless. It's the same device all sci-fi authors/creators use: if you reset the rules you can do anything. In the "Star Wars" universe George Lucas never had to explain why Han Solo can understand Chewbacca because it was assumed. In the "Buffy" universe, resurrecting a human Slayer was fine because that's something you can do in Buffy's world. So now here we are with "Lost." We're all working under the assumption that the rules of normal existence apply, but why do we assume that? We've got friggin polar bears running around for crying out loud! There's a monster tromping around the brush! I know a quote from a producer emerged saying that the normal laws of science apply, but isn't it possible that he/she was pulling our collective leg?

That's an amazing theory, and I'm loving it.

There's only one potential little nitpick I can find with it. The Beechcraft probably couldn't be more than a few years old, I was under the impression that Locke had only been living with his condition for about 4 years. If he can deteriorating to his previous state, wouldn't he get worse and then healthier?

I'm Spartacus!:

Great theory! You explained it very well too. I only wonder why, if Locke's condition worsened the closer he got to the Beechcraft, was he not able to feel any pain when a piece of the trebuchet got stuck in his leg while they tried to open the hatch? I don't remember now, were they very close to where that Beechcraft had crashed?

Good points. Mrs Spartacus and I postulated these and here's what we came up with:

It's possible Locke NEVER had sensation in his legs. When he survived the crash and realized he could walk, he never got 100% use of them back because the sense of touch was missing. Being used to his crippled condition it would be easy to not realize what was missing when he got use of his legs back. Thus, when the trebuchet broke and pierced his leg he didn't feel it. This also explains why he's able to burn his foot when he's so far from the location of the Beechcraft (with the proposed time issues). Because he simply never realized he was missing feeling.

Correct, the Beechcraft doesn't look more than a few years old. This is because aircraft are one of those things the owners will take tremendous care of. Even drug runners. The fact they were running heroin indicates the smugglers were well financed. Financed enough to pay for maintenance of a vintage aircraft. Like I said, these things were built until 1969. Assuming its a 69 model plane, and it was maintaned by a knowledgeable A&P mechanic, it could perform at or beyond factory specs well into 2004 and beyond. Couple that with the make and model of the handgun found in the possession of one of the corpses (probably a Glock or late Model SigSauer 9mm which aren't that old in handgun history) means the plane, gun, heroin and corpses all came from the same timeline.

The closer Locke got to the plane the closer into that timeline he began to exist and reverted back to his condition in that time. As he carried Boone back to the camp, he moved back into Oceanic 815 time and regained use of his legs. Thus I believe the Beechcraft crashed no more than ten years ago but at least four.

One thing that throws my theory off is a possibly tremendous oversight from the continuity and prop guys. If the script calls for the Beechcraft to actually be from 1969 or earlier (and negating my theory), then the continuity folks should have known the right weapon for the corpse to have. If the body is from anywhere between 1937 and 1969 the most appropriate handgun to be found would be the Colt Government model 1911 in .45 caliber.

Look back to any movie or TV show you've watched other than James Bond. From James Cagney and Bogart to Magnum PI, the most popular handgun used in film and TV was the M-1911 .45. Sure, .38s were used too...but no other handgun in US military and film history is as popular as the .45. When Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon used a Beretta 9mm and the US Army switched from the M-1911 to the Beretta 9mm, then Hollywood armed actors with the Beretta. Shortly thereafter, the Glock became popular and Hollywood followed. Every handgun on Lost is either a Glock or a Sig (I can't get a good look yet to tell)

So, in order to make the continuity and property department look good, I am continuing with my theory of the Beechcraft crashing between 4 and ten years before Oceanic 815 and the probability of shifting or intersecting timelines. With that said, the hatch thing in the ground could be Oceanic 815 from the year 2224. Ooohhhh...theoretical breakthru!!!!

Is it possible the event of Oceanic 815 crashing into this island will repeat itself time after time after time? Is this getting like the Matrix? Could the hatch be an Oceanic (or Intergalactic Oceanic) 815 from the future? Are all Oceanic 815's doomed to wreck on this island regardless of the time in which they originally exist? Wow....How will hurley's numbers will be involved? If the hatch is a craft from the future, and all of them are crashed passenger carriers, there is one other constant we've overlooked...all of the flights have some sort of residual electrical power to energize radios (Boone's radio on the Beechcraft and Sayyid's transponder) and lights (the mysterious light inside the hatch). Which Oceanic 815 did Ethan come from? Holy crap!!!

OK, the time shifting stuff is interesting. But, I guess I don't believe the writers did that...yet

No, I think the writers are working under a "Everything can be logically explained" constraint. Lockes temporary leg use could be logically explained once we know how he lost the use of his legs. There have been allusions to an accident, but that's pretty open ended. Maybe his leg loss was psychosematic.

All the dream sequences and hallucinations are perfectly acceptable in the context of extreme emotional, physical, (and on those long jungle walks) dehydrated conditions.

I love that this show launches a thousand theories...so please don't take this as a bubble burst. I just am rallying for the rational camp!

Oh, and thanks for the file aztecprincess. It has got my head spinning!

So here's a thought -- what if the corpse with the gun and the Nigerian money wasn't from the Beechcraft? We're working under the assumption that the two are connected, but maybe they aren't.

I'm Spartacus! :

Thanks for the possible explanation as to how Locke didn't feel pain in his legs. Makes sense as far as what we've been shown so far.

Loved the rest of your ideas too! You're a spy, aren't you... from the show?

trustno1:

I hadn't thought the priest was connected to the Beechcraft until they rbought it up, so maybe you're right.

I'm still actually wondering about those Adam & Eve corpses they found early on in the caves (with the black and white stones in one of their pockets... where are THOSE now??).

POSSIBLE SPOILERS -- YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

Highlight below to read the spoiler material (it's in relation to the black and white stones and the corpses):



I read that that black and white stones Jack found on Adam and Eve will be addressed by the end of the season.

I'm just goint to weigh in on Locke's leg condition - I think this has been brought up before, but I'm convinced it was a result of his organ donation to his self-centered, creepy birth father. Locke left the hospital when he should have been recuperating (his dad probably stuck him with the bill) and he was kind of suffering when he went to confront stinko dad Locke realized he'd been had.

As for the time travel theory, it makes a lot of sense, but I'd find it kind of disappointing - I'd like a more down-to-earth answer to all the goings on on the island. I thought that a polar bear possibility was that a boat (carrying circus animals possibly?) had run aground on the island, leaving open the possibility of many strange creatures on the island.

Also, who is the writer of this strange diary? Probably Walt - he's kind of a mysterious kid, and at the right age to be writing in a diary (or maybe that's a girl thing). He might have even wished bad things to happen to Boone and Locke - remember the bird incident in Australia? Might be interesting to see his reaction to Boone's death...

I am looking forward to this week's story - there will be a new episode, won't there (my local tv listing shows a repeat is in order - tell me it isn't so!!!)?

Robyn I'm assuming that Locke's paralysis is tied to his organ donation, maybe even indirectly through a suicide attempt or something like that (I really thought he was going to launch his car off a cliff at the end of "Deus Ex Machina.")

Unfortunately, there are repeats for at least the next two weeks. I've heard that we might get a "fill-in" episode on April 27 that's meant to catch people up on the mythology. In other words, we're not going to have any new episodes until May.

Wow! I am completely on board for the time travel concept. Two things seal the deal for me:

The polar bear is from when the island was connected to Antartica! The Dino - from Dino-times!

The voices in the jungle - they are hearing the past and the future.

Wooo, I have to take the rest of the day off to ponder this. Plus it's like 60 degrees out

Wait - one thing doesn't fit. Why did the comic book have pictures of what is happening on the island. How would that fit into the time travel theory?

And my two cents on closed caption. I always have it on so I don't miss anything while my 3 year old beats me with his light-saber. It is often wrong - but usually taken from the shows script. Last minute changes in the scripts don't get changed in the CC.

I'm Spartacus:

A couple of points about your great time-travel theory:
1: All little things mean something on this show, so maybe the book Sawyer was reading, "A Wrinkle in Time", has something to do with this theory, a hint from the writers, perhaps.

2: How would you say the "Others" fit in with this theory? Maybe from the future craft (the hatch)?

Wasn't it implied thhat Walt was manifesting thhe polar bears? Before his dad Michael burned it, Walt was reading a comic that had pics of polar bears, and we've seen his unusual ability to make weird things happen....
About the beachcraft, the 'priest' is connected to it somehow, as there was a map of Nigeria on the plane and the gun-totin' priest was carrying Nigerian currency......that's not to say he was actually on that plane when it crashed...

There's a word spoken by the responding voice just before the key statement "WE'RE the survivors..." It's mixed in with Locke yelling. Is it "hello"? "No"? Something else?

I've listened to this clip an embarassingly large number of times! Great stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by ChristinaLVT:

1: All little things mean something on this show, so maybe the book Sawyer was reading, "A Wrinkle in Time", has something to do with this theory, a hint from the writers, perhaps.

I've noticed the books as well. Sawyer had also been reading "Watership Down" shortly after the crash while everyone was still trying to settle in, too. So they could be very subtle hints.

quote:

Originally posted by Semaphore:
There's a word spoken by the responding voice just before the key statement "WE'RE the survivors..." It's mixed in with Locke yelling. Is it "hello"? "No"? Something else?

I listened many times as well and I heard "Hello?!" before the rest of the message. Funny thing is, I didn't hear it while watching the actual episode.

I agree that Sawyer reading "A Wrinkle in Time" is no coincidence. Interestingly, the Amazon editorial review about that book says that "This is no superhero tale, nor is it science fiction, although it shares elements of both. The travelers must rely on their individual and collective strengths, delving deep within themselves to find answers."

Sound familiar?

Definitely gotta read the book. Anyone who's read it? Any good?

Just a thought about Flight number designations... from the information I have seen, Flight numbers are retired after a loss of aircraft. Presumably to calm the fears of the supersticious. THat being the case, it would be odd for the BeachCraft to be Oceanic Flight815 as well. As for time travel... I guess it may work, but I think the writers may be strecthing it a bit if it turns out to be true, IMHO.

Hi,

Just a thought. Emelia Earhart was flying the same type of beechcraft when she was "lost."

SBT

sorry, that should have been Amelia Earhart .... SBT

Whoa. Sugarbeachtrader, that's a fantastic point. I will be duly impressed if the "Lost" crew whips that out.

ChristinaLVT, you asked about the book A Wrinkle in Time. It's a classic by Madeleine L'Engle, the first in a series of...three? or is it four? I forget now. I believe it's classified as young adult fantasy, although I read it in my 20s & it's certainly not only a book for teens. Incidentally, Watership Down falls into the same category. I will be interested to see if any other classic fantasy books pop up...after all, my theory on the eerie whispering in the jungle is that it's the One Ring at it again!

quote:

Originally posted by Alais_Longthought:
ChristinaLVT, you asked about the book A Wrinkle in Time. It's a classic by Madeleine L'Engle, the first in a series of...three? or is it four? I forget now. I believe it's classified as young adult fantasy, although I read it in my 20s & it's certainly not only a book for teens. Incidentally, Watership Down falls into the same category. I will be interested to see if any other classic fantasy books pop up...after all, my theory on the eerie whispering in the jungle is that it's the One Ring at it again!

Yeah, it's a set of four, or even five depending on which ones you count. I've ordered them and am looking forward to reading them. I need to reread Watership Down too. I wonder just how deep the parallels go between the books the show references and the show's storylines. I love any series (tv or books) that are well thought out in advance, with attention to appropriate forward references. I think that's one of the reasons Harry Potter is so popular, and it's certainly a key to Lost.

Thanks, Alais and Semaphore! I look forward to reading the books, and also looking for parallels.

A little update from a web chat with Kristin (a LOST insider who does provide some tantalizing spoilers):

skeenan923 asks: It definitely sounded like "WE'RE the survivors..." on the promo commercials.
Kristin_Veitch replies: Pay no attention to the commercials! Or that crazy promo guy behind the curtain! It is their job to deceive us ...

I've noticed that her information isn't always accurate though. Months ago she said that a new character would be introduced to help Claire give birth. Kate was never "a new introduction"...she was there from the beginning.

In listening to the clip that was posted, I'm about 99.9% sure that they say "WE'RE" not "There were no"

Others have said that close captioning read "There are no"

What this seems to imply to me is to listen for yourself and not rely on the closed captioning.

The voice changes between the episode that was shown and the clip currently available on the ABC Lost site. The Lost Blog(www.thelostblog.com) has a post detailing this with both the clips available for download, so you can make your own decisions.

Could Amelia Earhart and her co-navigator Fred Noonan be Adam and Eve? The following is an extract from the Navy's Historical Centre at http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq3-1.htm


January 1935 Earhart became the first person to fly solo across the Pacific Ocean from Honolulu to Oakland, California. Later that year she soloed from Los Angeles to Mexico City and back to Newark, N.J. In July 1936 she took delivery of a Lockheed 10E "Electra," financed by Purdue University, and started planning her round-the-world flight.


Earhart's flight would not be the first to circle the globe, but it would be the longest--29,000 miles, following an equatorial route. On March 17, 1937 she flew the first leg, from Oakland, California to Honolulu, Hawaii. As the flight resumed three days later, a tire blew on takeoff and Earhart ground-looped the plane. Severely damaged, the aircraft had to be shipped back to California for repairs, and the flight was called off. The second attempt would begin at Miami, this time to fly from West to East; Fred Noonan, a former Pan Am pilot, would be Earhart's navigator and sole companion in flight for the entire trip. They departed Miami on June 1, and after numerous stops in South America, Africa, the Subcontinent and Southeast Asia, they arrived at Lae, New Guinea on June 29. About 22,000 miles of the journey had been completed. The remaining 7,000 miles would all be over the Pacific Ocean.


On July 2, 1937 at 0000 GMT, Earhart and Noonan took off from Lae. Their intended destination was Howland Island, a tiny piece of land a few miles long, 20 feet high, and 2, 556 miles away. Their last positive position report and sighting were over the Nukumanu Islands, about 800 miles into the flight. The U.S. Coast Guard cutter USCGC Itasca was on station near Howland, assigned on short notice to communicate with Earhart's plane and guide her to the island once she arrived in the vicinity.


But it soon became evident that Earhart and Noonan had little practical knowledge of the use of radio navigation. The frequencies Earhart was using were not well suited to direction finding (in fact, she had left behind the lower-frequency reception and transmission equipment which might have enabled Itasca to locate her), and the reception quality of her transmissions was poor. After six hours of frustrating attempts at two-way communications, contact was lost.


A coordinated search by the Navy and Coast Guard was organized and no physical evidence of the flyers or their plane was ever found. Earhart and Noonan's fate has been the subject of many rumors and allegations which were never substantiated. Modern analysis indicates that after passing the Nukumanu Islands, Earhart began to vector off course, unwittingly heading for a point about 100 miles NNW of Howland. A few hours before their estimated arrival time Noonan calculated a "sun line," but without a successful, radio-frequency range calculation, a precise "fix" on the plane's location could not be established. Researchers generally believe that the plane ran out of fuel and that Earhart and Noonan perished at sea.