So, CASSANDRA, have you ever watched all of "The Time Machine" since that traumatic day?

I don't have any problem with the movie, one way or the other, except I don't want to get so involved with the actor playing Jesus, that I think that is what Jesus' looked like while on Earth - since he was born of a Jewish family and all.

I, too, considered whether to watch it in the theatre or wait for it to come out later, PEG - but I'm thinking the scope of the story, along with its musical score will have a bigger impact on the "big screen". I will be taking a box of kleenex with me because I know I'll need it. I also plan to re-read the 4 Gospel accounts shortly before I go, so they are fresh in my mind.

I remember, CASS, that The Hunk's birthday is April 5, but your day in April I don't remember - is it the same? You're just a young 'un...and so is he!



[This message has been edited by govtlawyer (edited 02-27-2004).]

Yet another reason why I find politics such a complete waste of time -

Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton ... and Rep. John McHugh are picking a fight with the fictional "West Wing" over a scene aired Wednesday night in which an aide discussed closing a real-life New York military base.

Clinton, D-N.Y., and McHugh, R-N.Y., fired off a letter Thursday to Deputy White House Chief of Staff Joshua Lyman, the TV character played by Bradley Whitford ....


"Dear Josh," begins the letter from Clinton and McHugh, who are real, to Lyman, who is not.

...

Rest of article at: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040227/ap_en_tv/clinton_west_wing_6

quote:

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Originally posted by govtlawyer:
... I'm thinking the scope of the story, along with its musical score will have a bigger impact on the "big screen". I will be taking a box of kleenex with me because I know I'll need it. I also plan to re-read the 4 Gospel accounts shortly before I go, so they are fresh in my mind.

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Agreed, bigger screen, greater impact. Maybe too much impact.
Box of Kleenex - ditto
Reread the 4 gospels - of course.

quote:

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Originally posted by cassandra:
... It also reminded me of the time I gave up going to the movies for Lent and then was tempted when all my friends went to see The Time Machine. ... I sat through about 15 minutes of the movie and then was so full of guilt that I ran out of the theater and all the way home thinking God was going to strike me down with a lightning bolt or something. I can understand why someone wrote a book titled Why Do Catholics Do That?

---

I felt similarly over even smaller things, sometimes things that I had no control over such as when my mother "parked" in a "no parking" zone to read a map. I was sure we were "in for it". All this without even being a church-goer. Family was Lutheran when they did go to church (once a year at Easter) and, to listen to Garrison Keillor, having a Lutheran background may be worse than having a Catholic one.

govt- Tax Day, Lincoln died and the Titanic sunk!
As for tissues and the movie: I once watched a very tame re-enactment of the crucifixion sometime in my 20's and I was a wreck. I may not be a Christian now, but man's inhumanity to man always hurts and if it's done realistically it would probably be harder for me to contain myself. So, this would be a good movie for me to see at home. When Natalie Wood says, "don't you touch him!" at the end of West Side Story, I am practically sobbing, so you can imagine what I'd be like watching Mary Magdelene's face!

[This message has been edited by cassandra (edited 02-28-2004).]

I have to update my movie comments after reading David Denby's review in "The New Yorker". It's hard to summarize in one sentence, but I think the gist of it is that the movie accentuates the *physical* body of Christ (all the torturous details with slo-mo and close-ups of a face in agony) and very little, if any, of the spritual nature of his sacrifice nor his importance as a teacher and role model. To me this is the same as any violent movie that has no character development or any other redeeming (sorry for the pun!) value.
IMHO, and I know how ridiculous this sounds, but I don't think Jesus would want a movie about this part of his life to focus so intently on the physical pain. I'm not saying that it should be minimized or glossed over, but I don't think it should be the whole point. Now, that is not my opinion after seeing it, so I'm curious to see what anyone who sees it thinks. But I know I don't want to give my money to any movie maker that contributes negatively to the already difficult relationships between religions today. This was not a search for Truth, as he ignored many biblical scholar's studies. I think there are many people who will forget this is primarily an entertainmnet medium and think they are watching The Truth. Also not a good thing for trying to create peace.
This is a man who rejects Vatican II and has an agenda that I cannot support. So, no close-ups of nails and disconnected joints for me!

quote:

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Originally posted by cassandra:
This was not a search for Truth, as he ignored many biblical scholar's studies.

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There are scholars and there are scholars. I wish I could have found an article I read a couple weeks ago about this. Here instead is just a snippet of something similar:

The gospels, he [John Dominic Crossan, a professor of religious studies at the Chicago-based Roman Catholic De Paul University] said, were written many years after the crucifixion at a time when the early Christians felt it would be politically wise to "soften Pontius Pilate as a way of placating" the Romans who ruled over them. (http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Entertainment/reuters20040224_161.html)

To a believer, the Bible was inspired by God. The idea that those who wrote the gospels would cave in to "political correctness" is absurd. The other article cited a few more examples of scholars believing that the gospel writers manipulated the facts to gain sympathy and converts.

Sounds terribly, terribly gruesome and I plan on avoiding it (TPOS) entirely.

I have to admit, after thinking about it more and more, I don't know if I'm going to go see the movie, either. I know Jesus died a horrible death, as it is well-described in the Bible and in historical accounts of how agonizing crucifixion is, and I know He died on humanity's account, but I find depictions of gore and violence very hard to watch - not to mention the reality we see on the news every night.

That's why I never watch "The Peacocks" when it's re-played.

The Peacocks! Augh! Images I had long forgotten have returned. Blech...

quote:

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Originally posted by govtlawyer:
I have to admit, after thinking about it more and more, I don't know if I'm going to go see the movie, either. ... I find depictions of gore and violence very hard to watch ...

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There's always the time honored practice of covering one's eyes and peeking thru your fingers until the offending scene is over.

LOL! PEGASUS! I'm afraid I'll be peeking between my fingers for the entire movie! I still haven't decided for sure - and when some of my friends return from their vacation next week I might go with them. Mr. govt doesn't want to see it.

Yeh, WALKER, those images are BAD. Then, again, sometimes I think I'm being terribly inconsistent, because there are other icky X-Files' things that I've sat through, to be sure. Maybe my "Ick Factor" is compartmentalized.

I am a big advocate of looking away when necessary. Anyone who goes to a movie with me knows to whisper to me "You can look now" after brutal or gruesome scenes have passed. It took about 6 viewings of Alien (over the years) before I would actually watch the chest popping scene. And that image is very vivid in my mind at this very moment. Those things have a way of staying with me, unfortunately.

And that darn Mama Peacock is still seared in my brain! I only saw the episode once, many years ago. ech...

On the Daily Show last night, one of the commentators was doing a "review" of the movie and they were showing short clips of scenes while he was talking and I couldn't even look at those. And those were just for brief seconds- I can't imagine sitting through the entire torturous experience. I am also someone who has to ask when it's safe to look again. I have had images from movies and TV shows come back to haunt me in my dreams/nightmares, and I'd prefer to avoid that if I can!

quote:

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Originally posted by Walker:
It took about 6 viewings of Alien (over the years) before I would actually watch the chest popping scene. And that image is very vivid in my mind at this very moment.

---

Yep, Alien did give me a couple nightmares. The scary part for me was the "tour" of the alien ship and the "thing" jumping out of the "egg" or "pod".

I get over it. Worst nightmare I ever had had nothing to do with a movie or book - an image that I have no idea where it came from. Also had a couple nightmares about scuba diving around a shipwreck, not seeing anything but somehow knowing something bad was lurking in the murky water. This last probably did have roots in a movie.

Some part of me knows what is movie violence and what is not. I watched Victory at Sea when it was first aired and somehow I knew the difference between documentary footage and staged scenes at an early age. Documentaries can hit me quite hard - especially pictures of the inmates and ravaged bodies of the dead from the concentration camps. I know "The Passion" will have a big impact but I don't think the violence per se will have a long lasting effect.

But everybody is different, has different thresholds.

Urg, The Passion -- have no idea what the religious politics behind this movie are, but after hearing what sitting in a theater to see it entails, I'm giving it a clear, wide miss.

It sounds like it should have an ad or something, a public announcement, right before and after the movie, to call Amnesty International about torture happening today, in countries near and far to us.

Otherwise...Cassandra, did you run out and buy your season 6 DVDs of Stargate? I'm so bad -- I went out and bought them, AND the Firefly set. Hubby's not too happy with me right now -- I'm also going to a Creation Con convention in Pasadena at the end of this month, so it's going to be an expensive month. Nope, haven't had the urge to buy any X-Files DVDs, tho, nor Buffy DVDs.

Ittot, I bought the Season 6 Stargate DVDs. My local station is in no danger of showing that season. So..... now I can start that season!

quote:

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Originally posted by xedout:
Ittot, I bought the Season 6 Stargate DVDs. My local station is in no danger of showing that season. So..... now I can start that season!

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That's cool. I just finished listening to the commentary ofr Abyss, along with watching the Director's Series mini doc about shooting that episode.

ITTOT- yes, I did run out and buy s.6 of Stargate even though we're trying to be more careful with our spending habits! Mr. C loves it also, so no complaints. At least I had a 5.00 coupon from all the money I spend at Best Buy!
Funny you should mention the Abyss- my husband was watching the special features on that this past weekend and was telling me all about the dangerous situations that the actors were in during the filming. We are big fans of that movie.(and Ed Harris)
Won't be watching s.6 for awwhile though. We're still in s. 4 of our DVD collection. I can't believe how fast they've released these. But with all the stress lately IRL (possible job loss, major medical issues with my mother-in-law, waiting to hear from colleges!) it is great to just sit down and get lost in our fantasy worlds of Stargate, Buffy and Angel.

quote:

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Originally posted by cassandra:
ITTOT- (snipped) Funny you should mention the Abyss- my husband was watching the special features on that this past weekend and was telling me all about the dangerous situations that the actors were in during the filming. We are big fans of that movie.(and Ed Harris).

---

Actually, I meant "Abyss", the s6 episode in Stargate. :-) The one where Jack is caught by a System Lord and tortured to death several times: Daniel appears (in Ascended form) to help him out. Some of the best scenes of the two of them together in the series.

Edited becuz I can't type or spell this morning!

[This message has been edited by Ittot (edited 03-10-2004).]

ITTOT- oh, well then, never mind...
Actually, I love that episode. We haven't watched any of the commentaries on the Stargate DVDs yet because we are so far behind in watching the eps. We usually try to go through an entire season in order before we watch any commentaries. The exceptions to this were on a few Buffy eps- "Hush" and "The Body" come to mind.

govt- how did you and govt jr. get through this waiting time to hear from colleges?! My daughter got into her safe school right away, but waiting to hear from the others while her friends keep posting their acceptances on their Live Journals and profiles is really getting to her. Checking the mail has gone from a routine everyday task to an emotional experience!

govt jr applied to 3 art schools. For two, she received letters very quickly - kind of an interim acceptance pending receipt of her school transcript. For the 3rd school, where she is actually going, I think only a couple of weeks went by. So, there wasn't any long waiting. Guess that wasn't very helpful, was it? Sorry!

Very sad, sad news about the bombings in Spain yesterday. I alternate between sadness, horror, and rage.

Al Qaeda (I hate even spelling the name) is claiming responsibility. It seems, if this is true, that their unholy war has moved to Europe. I read yesterday that the "reincorporation" of Spain is part of the AQ agenda. Seems they have a 500 year old grudge and think their conquest of Spain supercedes Spain's pre-conquest claim to Spain.

JM115, how is this being played out in Germany? Perhaps that is a callous question - I'm sure people are still in shock. But my baby sister lives in Italy with my two beautiful nieces, and I worry about their safety. Fortunately, she is a stay-at-home mother but one can be in the wrong place at the wrong time. The 5page email claiming AQ responsibility for the bombings said that Italy and the UK are next.

[This message has been edited by Walker (edited 03-12-2004).]

I lived in Spain for 3 years and what can you say? The people who did that are without conscience - their hearts are seared and hardened -- just like the 9/11 terrorists.

Regarding who did it - it's possible that it was ETA and the abandoned van with the Koranic verses was just a diversion to make it look like someone else was responsible. Or ETA could have linked up with Al Qaeda or it could be Al Qaeda independently...or someone new.

Govtlawyer, How did you find Spain? Did you like it?

Yes, I've seen the various stories about who is really to blame. The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer did a good job last night of discussing the possibilities, too.

PBS's Frontline did a program on the education of children in Saudi Arabia (where, as we all know, most of the AQ hijackers came from ), and the virulent anti-everybody religious dogma that the children are taught. If you google Wahhabism, you should find it no problem. It certainly speaks to where these attitudes come from AND the politization of the religious dogma.



[This message has been edited by Walker (edited 03-12-2004).]

This story from Salon:

Salon.com has just broken a major story detailing how the Pentagon created a
special office to manipulate intelligence data on Iraq and WMDs. It's written
by Karen Kwiatkowski, a military offer who was part of this unit, telling us the
inside story in her own words.

Click here to read the full story:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2004/03/10/osp_moveon/

My apologies in advance for my irrational and emotional venting here:
How can some people not be outraged by the fact that GWB stood in front of the american people and lied about WOD and uranium rods and the EPA lied about the safey of the air in downtown NYC after 9/11, yet they wanted to impeach Clinton for lying about having sex with Monica Lewinsky?! No one died from that! No one is going to be facing major health problems because of that! Sometimes I feel like I am living in the Twilight Zone. I guess it is too scary to think that the government is lying about things that lead us into war and moral outrage is a safer pursuit than is questioning our leaders about the necessity of war. This administration has used the public's fears since 9/11 in a shameless way and I find that so much more offensive, morally and ethically, than if Clinton had had 100 affairs in the White House!!
sorry- this just really gets to me sometimes.

Cassandra, Moveon.org has an online petition for the movement to censure the President for the reasons you mention. BTW, I think it is proper to be outraged when people are dying for dubious reasons. No one should be asked to give their life for half-truths and obfuscations.

I loved Spain. I studied Spanish for years and was so happy when I was assigned there for my first Navy duty tour. It was a WOW!

Many years ago (late '70s), my father went hunting with a family friend from Spain, Luis. Luis is Basque and his visiting friends (also Basque) accompanied them hunting. My father, ever a wise-acre, commented that Luis' friends looked like terrorists with their gear and getups. Luis turned pale and told my father that it would be a good idea not to say more. At which my father turned pale.

Now THAT's a scary story, WALKER. Seems, like your father unintentionally hit the nail on the head.