At least twice in "LaFleur", Juliet says that Locke did it, that he "saved" them without having to bring back the O6. But I think she's probably wrong about that. Yes, the brain hemorrhaging has stopped, but the Dharma-Hostile truce looks pretty darn shaky. The Dharma-entrenched Losties might still need saving yet.

(Aside: Something's been eating at me about Sawyer's talk with Richard, too. I might be making too much of this, but Richard says, "If you're not Dharma, then what are you?" Not "who are you", but "what are you". Does that strike anyone else as odd?)

(Aside: Something's been eating at me about Sawyer's talk with Richard, too. I might be making too much of this, but Richard says, "If you're not Dharma, then what are you?" Not "who are you", but "what are you". Does that strike anyone else as odd?)[/quote]

First, I thought Juliet was talking about Locke saving them from the time jumps. I did not get the impression that she was talking about "saving" them from the island.

Second, excellent catch on the "what" vs. "who" - I think that may be very telling since they seem to take pains over every word spoken in the series. Or at least they understand that we take every word seriously.

quote:

Originally posted by gnomon:
(Aside: Something's been eating at me about Sawyer's talk with Richard, too. I might be making too much of this, but Richard says, "If you're not Dharma, then what are you?" Not "who are you", but "what are you". Does that strike anyone else as odd?)

I took it to mean, "With whom are you affiliated?" That seems a reasonable question to me. Dharma being Dharma, one would assume if someone in the middle of the Dharmites wasn't a Dharmite, that he was affiliated with an organization that had business with the Dharmites; it would behoove you to know what that association is. So Richard wonders, if you aren't with these guys, then who are you with? And he asks not "Who are you?" but instead, "What are you?" To which one might answer, "I'm LAPD". or "I'm Hanso Foundation".

Undaunted -- I see your point, and if Sawyer had said "I know this island is special, and so are you" then I would agree that the "what" meant "what organization/faction do you represent?".

But Sawyer has just described something that happened 20 years before (including details). With that kind of knowledge on Sawyer's part, I think the "what" not "who" may be more important.

quote:

Originally posted by undaunted:

quote:

Originally posted by gnomon:
(Aside: Something's been eating at me about Sawyer's talk with Richard, too. I might be making too much of this, but Richard says, "If you're not Dharma, then what are you?" Not "who are you", but "what are you". Does that strike anyone else as odd?)

I took it to mean, "With whom are you affiliated?" That seems a reasonable question to me. Dharma being Dharma, one would assume if someone in the middle of the Dharmites wasn't a Dharmite, that he was affiliated with an organization that had business with the Dharmites; it would behoove you to know what that association is. So Richard wonders, if you aren't with these guys, then who are you with? And he asks not "Who are you?" but instead, "What are you?" To which one might answer, "I'm LAPD". or "I'm Hanso Foundation".

I've got to go with Dauntless on this. I had to go back and watch that scene to get a better feeling. Remembering that the Others had no end of intruders on "their" island in the past, including an American military battalion and a nuke, then the Dharma Initiative, it makes sense that Alpert is wondering what group is now trying to cut in. Notice also that only two sentences later, Alpert says, "It doesn't matter who you are". Again, "WHO", not what. I think in this case the wording is being given excessive meaning.

I did wonder about a couple of other things I picked up when I re-watched that scene. First, it was interesting that when Alpert turned to Sawyer on the bench, his words,tone and inflection were an exact match to the Ben we know and love. I hadn't gotten that before.

Also, it was interesting when Richard said the fence would not stop the Others. Is that because of Ben disarming the fence or some other reason? We still have not seen Ben in the camp during that time period. That has to be coming.

It was also interesting to me that Richard has remained leader from the Jughead time through the LaFleur time, never aging. Not until Ben arrives, grows up and takes over does Richard step back. Even then, he is a background leader.

How little we know of the Others. How long have they been there? How long do they live? Were they on the island when the statue was built? When the Black Rock crashed? Widmore was young, apparently until he left the island. Do they all stay at one age unless they leave?