I'm not buying the large magnet pulling the plane out of the sky theory because it's virtually impossible. I do think the island had something to do with the plane crash though, so here's a very possible scenerio:
Oceanic's communications get lost - we know this to be true. They fly off course without any radio contact, thus potentially crossing other lines of flight of other planes. It's possible the island's magnetic mojo could have scrambled Oceanic's communications, which makes it possible it scrambled other planes' communications close by. Thus two planes, or even just one at that matter, flying blindly could slam into each other. This seems very realistic to me.
Another plane could have flown just over flight 815, hitting Oceanic's tail. This would have taken only a second to happen. This could have weakened the tail section of the plane and the force of the collision combined with the air-drag could have ripped it apart.
The one inconsistency with this is that in the beginning of "The Other 48 Days" I believe the tail was attached to the tail section of the plane as it hit the water. But it could be possible the incoming plane didn't knock off Oceanic's tail, it just weakened the internal supports in the back of the plane. It's also possible that the incoming plane hit in another area of flight 815 in such a way that it caused the plane to tear apart.
I know there are other threads on the plane crash but they veered so far off topic (somewhere near Fiji) that it was useless to start them up again. So here you go...any plane buffs?
If I remember correctly, flight 815 experienced some pretty severe turbulence for approx a minute before the tail section ripped off. A collision would have been a normal flight with a sudden "bam" - then a few seconds of turbulence, then the tail section rips off.
Although, perhaps they just happened to hit some turbulence before the mid-air collision.
So, this is as good a theory as any, although two planes colliding in mid-air is very improbable. Of course, this show deals in the coincidental. Maybe flight 815 wandered over the island and collided with a Dharma cargo drop flight.
Yeah it takes a leap of faith. Although planes have collided in mid-air before. It happened in the 70's I think over San Francisco (?) If I wasn't ready to crawl into bed (disc golfing since work let out) I'd look that up. Maybe tomorrow...
Originally posted by Poppa Adat: Yeah it takes a leap of faith. Although planes have collided in mid-air before. It happened in the 70's I think over San Francisco (?) If I wasn't ready to crawl into bed (disc golfing since work let out) I'd look that up. Maybe tomorrow...
It's entirely possible.
Point against: The pilot said that they were away from all commercial flight lanes. Of course, we already know that the drug plane was on an uncharted flight so who else could also have been?
Point for: As I remember, it wasn't turbulance but a sudden drop. This is evidenced by the unbelted passengers instantly hitting the roof of the plane. They don't go "up". The plane is going suddenly down. While this is my memoery, there is a nagging feeling that there was turbulence. I'm going to have to watch that episode again.
Heck, it could be a high flying flock of birds through the engines for all we know.
I'll start by saying I don't know anything about communication systems or radar. I guess a question I have would be whether or not the plane's short range radar could still work, i.e. would they be able to see another plane coming, regardless of whether or not they had outside communication or could get out of the way. I don't remember the exact conversation they had with the soon-to-be-dead pilot (JJ Abrams' buddy, Greg Grunberg, from Felicity and Alias), but you'd think he would have mentioned something about hitting another plane if they saw it coming. Like I said, that hinges on their short range communication and radar capability.
A magetic field could have affected a compass but it would have to have been a hell of magnetic field. Magnetic field strength drops off very rapidly with distance. It also would only affect ferric objects close to the source. Planes are mostly aluminum and other non-magentic alloys.
Besides how many planes use a magnetic compass to navigate by? Perhaps as a sanity check but the gps units and other navigation systems use fixed beacons and em waves which are not appreciably deflected by magnetic fields.
Magnetic fields could affect electronics (as they affect electrical currents) but again the field would have to be so powerful that it would affect every electronic device worldwide. The earth generates a huge magetic field and it is hard to imagine how you would generate a more powerful and large one, except confined in a in a small (relative to earth) coil.
Think of an MRI machine where the computers are a few feet away from the magnet. No problems there. Also the computers, lights and other stuff in the swan bunker work just fine.
So the crash had to be in the making early in the flight long before they interacted with the Island.
I wondered if the plane could have been a shell inside of another plane? The shell could have been airdropped at the right moment to ensure that it lands on the island with enough survivors? I suppose one could argue that a charges could have been planted ina real plane to cause it to disintegrate but the fall would be less predictable. But the idea of a air drop is appealing since it could ensure a safer landing for a needed number of the passengers (or sujects). Maybe there were more subjects accrued than needed, but that it was estimated that a % would survive an airdrop?
Drop a bunch of junk and engine parts and the lostees would be no wiser that they weren't in a real crash.
Another plane could have flown just over flight 815, hitting Oceanic's tail. This would have taken only a second to happen. This could have weakened the tail section of the plane and the force of the collision combined with the air-drag could have ripped it apart.
But what happened to the other plane? Did it crash too? If not, wouldn't they have broadcast a radio transmission that they had hit another plane?
Also, all commercial jets with clearance to land in the U.S. (and Australia) have collision avoidance systems that would warn them of an impending crash even with a total loss of communications. It's built into each plane separately.
I don't know anything about the dynamics of airplane crashes, but I've always thought it was strange that a plane could fall out of the sky and have 50 or so people walk away without a scratch.
Originally posted by intrepid: I don't know anything about the dynamics of airplane crashes, but I've always thought it was strange that a plane could fall out of the sky and have 50 or so people walk away without a scratch.
Now that I think about it, that IS strange. Before I thought it was perfectly normal.
Real plane crashes are rarely like the movies - where they glide and skim over the ground, lose parts and grind to a halt.
They usually completeley disintegrate killing all on board, like flight 800 over NYC Or they land and everyone walks away - like the Air France jet that skidded off the runway in Toronto earlier this year. Thankfully all survived that accident.
Thus I believe the crash was a setup. How they (whoever that is) did it I don't know - just speculation.
Originally posted by ianulimac: I believe the plane crash was staged.
A magetic field could have affected a compass but it would have to have been a hell of magnetic field. Magnetic field strength drops off very rapidly with distance. It also would only affect ferric objects close to the source. Planes are mostly aluminum and other non-magentic alloys.
Besides how many planes use a magnetic compass to navigate by? Perhaps as a sanity check but the gps units and other navigation systems use fixed beacons and em waves which are not appreciably deflected by magnetic fields.
Magnetic fields could affect electronics (as they affect electrical currents) but again the field would have to be so powerful that it would affect every electronic device worldwide. The earth generates a huge magetic field and it is hard to imagine how you would generate a more powerful and large one, except confined in a in a small (relative to earth) coil.
Think of an MRI machine where the computers are a few feet away from the magnet. No problems there. Also the computers, lights and other stuff in the swan bunker work just fine.
Not to burst your bubble, but magnetic disruption is one of the main causes of interference with radio communications. MRI's don't affect the computers they are near because the room and the machine are built to contain extra pulses. Since GPS relies on a signal coming from a satelite (a rather weak signal), it is possible that they lost their GPS or it was unreliable. Other common forms of navigation besides the old standby "whiskey" compass are gyros (which most commercial airliners don't use) and ring laser gyros (which are more common now). All are still vurnerable to magnetic interference.
As for the Traffic Collision Avoidance System (TCAS), it also uses radio signals to communicate with other aircraft avoidance systems to warn and inform the pilots. This could have been disrupted as well with magnetic interference.
A rather boring read but it has some good information.
If you have any question on the communications and navigations systems, I'm an Avionics Instructor for the Air Force.
Wow! interesting stuff Attica. On the contrary I found that link to be interesting.
However in all the cases mentioned (solar storms, arial atomic bursts, DEWs etc..)it was electromagnetic fields that interfere with electronics not pure magentic fields.
With all due respect pure magnetic fields are very weak. The strongest fields on earth (besides earth's own field) are produced in the bore of MRI or particle collider detectors (7+ Teslas). The fields are very powerful in the bore but drop off inversely at the ends. As a result pure magentic fields cannot be projected far at all.
Electromagnetic fields are another story But it is the E-field component that excites electrons. High powered EM induces wayward currents in electronics.
In the case of MRI there is no shielding for the computers from the magentic field. The danger is that an ferric object might stick to the side of the machine and pull the coils out of alignment or pinch a tech (or erase credit cards).
The computer room might be surrounded by a Faraday cage but that is again to shield them from EM pulses.
Now in the show it is possible that there is a magnetic beam or something out of the realm of physics. Maybe the station emits EM pulses and the bunker is shielded? It is after all a sci-fi/drama tv show.
Anyway I believe the whole crash was staged. First the fact that ALL their lives interesect by at most a few people is really beyond chance. Second plane crashes are usually all or nothing affairs (the news sadly confirms that today). Thus the whole thing seems to be set up so that enough Lostees would survive the crash for some purpose.
