i would like to know peoples opinions on this one. does anyone agree that perhaps they are the dead bodies of castaways already on the island, involved in some time traveling paradox? IE walt, jack or locke?

I agree with CaptDan in the Working Backwards thread that it's Amelia Earhart and her copilot. That's the first thing I thought of when I saw the skeletons -- plane crashes happen on this island, so why not Amelia's? Does anyone know around where she was supposed to have crashed? I'll try to find it online after I post and edit this message...

Actually, when I said I wouldn't be suprised if they found Amelia Earhart, I was joking. I wasn't referring to Adam and Eve, but it would be cool if it turned out that way.

Don't have the show taped to look for it now, but was there anything with the skeletons that would date them? Equipment, weapons, clothing? Have the castaways even questioned who they could be? They are not as curious as we are! Are the skeletons associated with Danielle and her group? Why don't they question her more for clues??? Oh, that's right - not enough gumption - too busy locking lips...arrrrgh!

quote:

Originally posted by LostLady:
Don't have the show taped to look for it now, but was there anything with the skeletons that would date them? Equipment, weapons, clothing? Have the castaways even questioned who they could be? They are not as curious as we are! Are the skeletons associated with Danielle and her group? Why don't they question her more for clues??? Oh, that's right - not enough gumption - too busy locking lips...arrrrgh!

In S1E6 when they found the bodies, Kate and Jack have a conversation which kind of dates Adam and Eve.

Kate: Any idea how long they've been here?
Jack: Long. It takes 40 or 50 years for clothing to degrade like this.

Hope that helps.

Just found this online -- sounds like if Jack is right about the age of the skeletons, then Amelia is too old.

Total Persons on Board:
Two - Amelia Earhart and Frederick J. Noonan

When:
July 2, 1937

Weather:
Clear to partly cloudy

Flight Route:
Around the world. Starting in Oakland, California to Miami, Florida, across the Caribbean to South America, then across the South Atlantic to Africa. Flying over the Sahara, continue around the tip of Arabia and on up to India. From there, across the sub-continent and down though Southeast Asia, through what was then the Netherlands East Indies, to northern Australia and finally eastward to Lae, New Guinea. Then a 2,500 mile flight to Howland Island, a small coral outcropping in mid-Pacific where a runway had been carved out and the Coast Guard cutter Itasca was waiting to refuel the Lockheed for the flight to Hawaii. From there she continue on to Oakland to complete the world flight.


Area Believed Crashed:
South Pacific - It has been determined that the plane went down some 35-100 miles from Howland Island. A life raft was stowed on board but no trace has ever been found the raft. Some experts felt that the empty fuel tanks could keep the plane afloat for a period of time.

Found some more about Howland Island:
Background:
Discovered by the US early in the 19th century, the island was officially claimed by the US in 1857. Both US and British companies mined for guano until about 1890. Earhart Light is a day beacon near the middle of the west coast that was partially destroyed during World War II, but has since been rebuilt; it is named in memory of the famed aviatrix Amelia EARHART. The island is administered by the US Department of the Interior as a National Wildlife Refuge.
Geography:
Oceania, island in the North Pacific Ocean, about half way between Hawaii and Australia
Geographic coordinates:
0 48 N, 176 38 W

Okay, now I really want it to be Amelia and her buddy! Lost writers, please read this and (as Captain Pickard would say), make it so! :>) Not that it really matters in the grand scheme of things... Better yet, Lost writers, if you're reading this, post some hints for us!!!

It could be! If Jack is right about the condition of the clothes ("40-50 yrs...to degrade like this"), and Earhart went down in 1937, that gives them 67 years to deteriorate. Considering they probably wore a lot of leather, for warmth, rather than fabric, couldn't it take considerably longer to degrade? What would that kind of time do to the bones themselves?

Just watched that episode last night ( what a nice Christmas present!). One of the skeletons had two polished rocks in their pockets too- one black one white in a little drawstring bag.

Since things do seem to crash there alot I think you may be on something.

Unless he has a background in forensics or has been a medical examiner, Jack wouldn't have any more clue the rate at which clothes decay than any other person. On top of that, clothes would decay at different rates depending on where they were. I'd say that clothing would decay more rapidly than normal on a humid, windy, tropical island than in a desert environment. Does his comment "It takes 40 or 50 years for clothing to degrade like this" tip us off as to something in his background?

He is a surgeon. Don't medical students learn on cadavers? Perhaps some of the knowledge came from that area of study? Don't know, but the same thought occurred to me, captdan, that buried clothes/bones in arid conditions can last for decades or centuries, but these bones were exposed to air, water, animals, whatever. What are the chances they'd last even 50 yrs? Still, it would be something if it was the Earhart pair.

Umm, i actually just did a report on Amelia Earhart and, while it might be possible, she crashed in the atlantic somewhere betwwen England and the U.S. They are in the south pacific so i highly doubt it is!

Yikes... tell me you're joking Spacemonkey. Either that, or I fear you'll get an "F" on your report.

She was on the Pacific leg of her 'round-the-world trip and was between Darwin, Australia and Honolulu, Hawai.

Amelia reached Lae in New Guinea on June 29. At this point they had flown 22,000 miles and there were 7,000 more to go...all over the Pacific. Amelia cabled her last commissioned article to the Herald Tribune. Photos show her looking very tired and ill during her time at Lae.

The U.S. Coast Guard cutter Itasca had been standing off Howland Island for some days to act as a radio contact for Amelia. Radio communications in the area were very poor and the Itasca was overwhelmed with commercial radio traffic that the flight had generated.

Amelia left Lae at precisely 00:00 hours Greenwich Mean Time on July 2. It is believed that the Electra was loaded with 1,000 gallons of fuel, allowing for 20-21 hours of flying.

At 07:20 hours GMT Amelia provided a positon report placing the Electra on course at some 20 miles southwest of the Nukumanu Islands. The last weather report Amelia was known to have received was before take-off. The head wind speed had increased by 10-12 mph, but it is not known if she ever received the report.

At 08:00 GMT Amelia made her last radio contact with Lae. She reported being on course for Howland Island at 12,000 feet. There is no real evidence as to the precise track of the aircraft after Nukumanu. No one saw or heard the plane fly over.

Several short transmission were received by the Itasca with varying signal strengths but they were unable to get a fix on her location because they were too brief. At 19:30 GMT the following transmission was received from the Electra at maximum strength...


"KHAQQ calling Itasca. We must be on you but cannot see you...gas is running low..."

At 20:14 GMT the Itasca received the last voice transmission from Amelia giving positioning data. The Itasca continued to transmit on all frequencies until 21:30 hours GMT when they determined that Amelia must have ditched at sea and began to implement search procedures.

They didn't wear leather for warmth.

WWI Pilots wore silk under their clothes for warmth. They practically dressed as they were boarding their crates because running during an alert in silk would generate too much sweat. The sweat would get cold and freeze the pilots, thereby negating the warming effect in the first place.

WWII B-17 crew wore wool under leather. The leather had little to do with heat retention and more to do with durability. Plus leather was a common use fabric back in those days.

Any clothing condition the writers show on Adam and Eve will be wrong. Why? Because they didn't do their research. And because Rousseau's rifle butt didn't rot in the jungle climate after 14 years, which it would have.

quote:

Originally posted by Hell 'n Ready:
They didn't wear leather for warmth.

WWI Pilots wore silk under their clothes for warmth. They practically dressed as they were boarding their crates because running during an alert in silk would generate too much sweat. The sweat would get cold and freeze the pilots, thereby negating the warming effect in the first place.

WWII B-17 crew wore wool under leather. The leather had little to do with heat retention and more to do with durability. Plus leather was a common use fabric back in those days.

Any clothing condition the writers show on Adam and Eve will be wrong. Why? Because they didn't do their research. And because Rousseau's rifle butt didn't rot in the jungle climate after 14 years, which it would have.

Thanks for that information, Hell 'n Ready, it was very interesting! So OK, the leather wasn't worn for warmth, but it WAS commonly used for durability (your words).

Now if one of our own scientists would step forward, please, and let us all know how long it would take leather to disintegrate in open air, wet conditions, we will all be better informed for it. It's one of those quirky things to find out about for no reason...well, for argument's sake, maybe? Thanks!

28th December 2005! I knew that I'd be dragging this post back up in the future! I'm just sorry that the writers dont read this thing.

quote:

Originally posted by FurtiveForumFan:
I agree with CaptDan in the Working Backwards thread that it's Amelia Earhart and her copilot. That's the first thing I thought of when I saw the skeletons -- plane crashes happen on this island, so why not Amelia's? Does anyone know around where she was supposed to have crashed? I'll try to find it online after I post and edit this message...

While it has been interesting learning lots about Amelia which I didn't know (have to do some research), I still feel the two bodies will be a pair of our Losties. Why? I have no particular evidence but do have an idea revolving around the black and white stones. I think that at some point near the end of the series, two characters will find two stones, black and white, which tie the two characters together. The stones will have some special meaning to those characters. All of us will sagely sigh, knowing their fate. Then, in the next couple of episodes, the stones will be lost, traded, stolen and lost again until we are all once again clueless about who ends up in the cave - except that we know it is a pair of losties. That's my only thought.



- following not Lost related

quote:

Originally posted by Hell 'n Ready:
They didn't wear leather for warmth.

WWI Pilots wore silk under their clothes for warmth. They practically dressed as they were boarding their crates because running during an alert in silk would generate too much sweat. The sweat would get cold and freeze the pilots, thereby negating the warming effect in the first place.

WWII B-17 crew wore wool under leather. The leather had little to do with heat retention and more to do with durability. Plus leather was a common use fabric back in those days.

Any clothing condition the writers show on Adam and Eve will be wrong. Why? Because they didn't do their research. And because Rousseau's rifle butt didn't rot in the jungle climate after 14 years, which it would have.

First, I agree that the age of the clothing could never be determined from deterioration. I disagree about the rifle. In older, untreated stocks, there might be some truth to that. In a more modern rifle with a treated stock there would likely be little or no deterioration, especially if even a little care were taken. After all, the rifle was in use, stored under cover, not laying on the jungle floor untouched.

Hell 'n Ready, you might want to be a little less distinct with your assertion that leather jackets were not worn for warmth. That is not exactly true. Leather jackets were worn by WWI pilots because of the wind through open cockpits. As any motorcycle rider knows, leather protects against the wind and insulates, keeping the rider warm. Bomber crews in a B-17 or B-24 flew high enough to be exposed to the cold. I'm sure you know that, except for the cockpit, a B-17 is full of open holes (gun hatches) and the wind blew right through them. The leather was a critical layer in keeping the crews warm. And don't forget the sheepskin collars which could wrap around the neck and face.

The bomber crews also had electrically heated flight suit liners (F-series suits) and heated leather boots. I think (but don't know for sure) that these suits came later and were used primarily on the B-29. The heated suits were so bulky that they precluded the use of a leather jacket. However, the B-29, while it flew at higher altitude (colder) was enclosed and pressurized, thus eliminating the wind effect.

And this doesn't even include a discussion about fighter pilot uniforms or the differences between services.

You also didn't mention that the leather jackets were a status item, like berets in the modern military. My dad tried to trade for a leather jacket while in the Pacific in WWII. He couldn't pull it off and ended up with a Japanese officer's sword instead. Several of his ex-bomber crew friends still have their jackets, which are serious items of pride which come out every Veteran's Day.

I'd just like to interject. I am a medical student, and yes, it is true that we study on cadavers, however, there is nothing in our schooling that would prepare us to be able to make a statement about the deterioration of clothing. The only way he could have that knowledge would be if he happened to take an interest in forensics in undergraduate and learn some of the ins and outs there.

Pagecarl

Did Jack not take the stones from the corpses pocket - in the first season? where did they end up? I kind of remember them being in lockes eye sockets during a dream as well at some stage?