Well, this is the last eppy til 2005.

Comments?

I enjoyed it. Found Jack pounding Charlie's chest to be a little excessive. Didn't think he would be killed off.

Interesting dynamics set up for the new year.

More later.

Overall a pretty good episode. Hate the wait for new ones.

Curious as to what folks think the "discovery" at the end of the episode may turn out to be.

Also, has there been any discussion of the fact that Ethan Rom is an anagram of Other Man? Thought that was neat.

I was looking into his name to see if it was an anagram, until some work fell on to my desk.

Welcome, Roy.

First off, this week's edition of Key Points is now up:

Key Points from "All the Best Cowboys Have Daddy Issues

Now then, I really enjoyed this episode. The reason: Stuff actually happened. Yes, the flashbacks were still hanging around, but they didn't take up a huge chunk of the running time and, moreover, the flashbacks were overwhelmed by the wicked current events.

As I saw Charlie swinging from above I, too, was thinking they wouldn't off a main character, but in the back of my mind I was reminded of recent rumors suggesting one of the major players might meet his or her end. So, for a second, Charlie's future seemed in doubt.

Roy: Welcome! And thanks for the low-down on Ethan. For kicks, I ran his name through Wordsmith.org's Anagram Server and here are a few of the results:

AHEM TORN

HAREM NOT

HATE NORM

MEAN THOR

NEAR MOTH

MATH RENO

MA HEN ROT

AM THE RON

Bottom line: Roy's "Other Man" is by far the best one (and the most relevant).

I like the underground lair explanation for the metal flooring in the middle of the jungle. Probably how Ethan survived all those years away from Danielle and the thing that rocks the trees. I still think there's a connection between crazy Danielle and Ethan. I liked the Sawyer comment regarding the signal fire - sort of gives him an opening to become part of the group. Also, am really getting tired of Jack. Doesn't he have a clue about how to delegate??? He's going to burn himself out and then the folks on the island will be without a doctor. That would be stupid and selfish of him.....

Definitely good to get back to the island situation without so many flashbacks.

Great episode all around, although the Charlie scene was truly a shock. Never saw that coming, but as with others, I didn't fully buy that they'd kill him off. Not that I didn't think, for a second, that he might be a goner. The whole scene was pretty brutal to watch. Not that I didn't love it!

I appreciated that Sawyer didn't exact revenge on Sayid. The scene played better that way. Seems honesty counts where Sawyer is concerned, as it did when Hurley asked him for the manifest. How's that for irony? I did wonder what "meds" Sawyer said he has to go to the caves for everyday. Antibiotics for the stab wound in his arm maybe?

I also noted that with the disappearance of Charlie and Claire, this was really the first time we've seen Locke act worried and uncertain. He even admitted that Ethan slid under his radar, and that must've thrown him off a bit.

[This message has been edited by AuraAzure (edited 12-09-2004).]

look back at the list of the anagrams you've provided. someone pointed this out to me...

one of them is "NEAR MOTH". Wasn't there an episode about a moth? does that have any significance.

It certainly could have significance. The episode you're referring to is "The Moth" and it's the one that featured Charlie's backstory.

Other Man - very interesting. Good catch!

Do you guys think children have some sort of power on this island? It seems like Walt can make things happen. He got his dog back (though Locke found it), the polar bear from his comic book showed up, and he beat Hurley, a self proclaimed champ, in backgammon with perfect rolls of the dice. Maybe Ethan wants Claire's baby for that reason and he didn't take Walt because he's already 10 (or whatever he is). Maybe Ethan survived this long on the island because he was a child when he arrived so he avoided the 'sickness'. But that theory pre-supposes Ethan is Danielle's son - which may not be true. He could have given a fake name when Hurley asked.

All in all, a great episode!

And another thing, google Rom.

He said he's from Ontario. This may suggest he made up his name using something from his home town.

Interesting.

I missed last week's episode, so I didn't really have anything to offer. This week's episode offers much to chew on.

We end the abbreviated first season on a strong note, and in an interesting place. The idea that the island, itself, is a character, has now been firmly established, but the nature of this unique 'character' is anything but clear.

Locke is the character who is most clearly in tune with the island. Locke was explicit a few episodes back that the island will 'give you what you want', but he was also explicit about there being a price, 'you have to give something back to the island'. Both before and after that, we've seen plenty of instances of of the island providing tangible wish fulfillment. Michael found an axe, Walt his dog, Charlie his guitar, Hurley a set of golf clubs, etc. Dr. Jack follows his ghost-dad to shelter located next to fresh water.

I'd also say that Sayid finding expiation for torturing Sawyer, by becoming a torture victim himself, was a form of wish-fulfillment. Sawyer says it was, with his comment on 'island karma'. Sawyer ought to know, since he found his own similar route to desired self-punishment.

This episode steps it up a notch, though, because we see people controling the act of island munificence. Walt does it without realizing it, as he calls out his backgammon dice rolls in advance. Locke, ahead of the curve, apparently has discovered he can make it rain on command. Since he repeated the same facial expressions and gestures that he did in the pilot episode when it rained, one wonders if he didn't figure this out a long time ago. Walt prefers hanging with Locke, and between his backgammon game and his dialogue with Sawyer, we're seeing that he's only slightly behind Locke's curve in understanding the nature of his predicament.

What's a lot less clear so far is what Locke means when he says that the island wants something back. The only other common theme that I've seen in the island stories is that they all appear to involve placing people in predicaments that speak to their worst fears. People who overcame their fears or the ghosts of their pasts are faring much better than those who didn't. Perhaps what the island wants back is for you to conquer your inner demons. I think that the people who are speculating that the island is a specific afterlife, like Purgatory, are wrong, but are on the right thematic track.

There's a theme in our culture, reflected in Hollywood screen-/script-writing that entities capable of powerful wish-fulfillment are always evil or morally corrupt. The Devil is a character in "The Witches of Eastwick" and "The Devil's Advocate". In both movies, there is a point when a character asks the Devil, "Who are you?", and in both movies the Devil replies, "I'm whatever you want me to be". That's something that hooker characters in Hollywood movies are often given to say. Julia Roberts says that to Richard Gere early on in "Pretty Woman", before she undergoes her Pygmalian transformation.

The island is a 'character' in this show, and I think we're seeing the wish-fulfillment-is-evil/corrupting theme playing out. What is the island? It's whatever you want it to be. Hollywood seldom follows the consequences of that dynamic to a happy place in any other fashion than rejecting that bargain.

This seems to me like the kind of thing that can be entertaining to explore for a few more seasons. Or maybe I'm just indulging my own wish-fulfillment in hoping this show will be as good as I think it can . . . .

quote:

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Originally posted by AuraAzure:
Definitely good to get back to the island situation without so many flashbacks.

Great episode all around, although the Charlie scene was truly a shock. Never saw that coming, but as with others, I didn't fully buy that they'd kill him off. Not that I didn't think, for a second, that he might be a goner. The whole scene was pretty brutal to watch. Not that I didn't love it!

I appreciated that Sawyer didn't exact revenge on Sayid. The scene played better that way. Seems honesty counts where Sawyer is concerned, as it did when Hurley asked him for the manifest. How's that for irony? I did wonder what "meds" Sawyer said he has to go to the caves for everyday. Antibiotics for the stab wound in his arm maybe?

I also noted that with the disappearance of Charlie and Claire, this was really the first time we've seen Locke act worried and uncertain. He even admitted that Ethan slid under his radar, and that must've thrown him off a bit.

[This message has been edited by AuraAzure (edited 12-09-2004).]

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AA,

I agree with you (and others) that the dangling-Charlie visual was great. I'm sure Charlie would say it was gobsmacking powerful. Have to agree with TN1's episode recap, though, that the histrionics of Charlie's revival were overdone. The comparison to the cheesy "Abyss" is apt.

Sayid/Sawyer scene: Also a strong point in the ep, but more for the writing than the acting, which continues to be weak from both of these one-note players. IIRC, Sawyer said that Dr. Jack didn't trust him with 'antibiotics'. This makes sense, in that Sawyer could use protection from having his torture and stab wounds infected (and also gives him an excuse to interact with the cave-dwellers), but it mildly conflicts with what Dr. Jack said about the inadequacy of the antibiotics he'd found, when he was trying to treat the fatally wounded marshall (bounty hunter?).

Locke: I hope that, during the off season, the writer who writes Locke gives a seminar to the rest of the staff on how to write a believable, three-dimensional character (except when it comes to naming him).

Here's something to ponder: how much of Locke's admission of inadequacy with respect to Ethan was genuine, and how much was an attempt to manipulate Jack? Did you notice how Locke had a knife for everyone who went with him, except for Jack?

The tension between Locke and Jack is about a lot more than competing alpha males. Locke's relationship with almost everyone on the island is about manipulating them to do what Locke thinks they ought. Locke postures that its about encouraging others to make choices, but his relationship with Jack demonstrates what happens when you don't make the choices Locke approves of.

If someone talked to me the way that Locke talks to Jack, I'd have decked that someone a long time ago (that is, if I were on an island without civilizing rules ). If someone let my kid play with knives, knowing that I'd forbidden it, how is that respecting my choices? By what moral right does Locke substitute his judgment of Walt's best interests for his own father's? As a dad, I'm not seeing the benevolence; I'm seeing a stranger challenging my parental authority and endangering my kid in the process.

Locke's a cool character, but he's not your friend. The island gave him his legs back, and that gift is blinding him to the true nature of the giver. He's being seduced by the dark side.

Or such is my opinion. YMMV.

A few thoughts on Locke, and my apologies if they're not original to this board as I've just found it:

I think Locke is straddling the boundaries between good and bad. I reference the black and white imagery that surrounds him, i.e. Backgammon and the black and white eyes he shows in Claire's dream. I think he is closest to primal of all the survivors, therefore more in-tune with the island. It is this primal nature that enhances his status as neither good nor bad. He's simply surviving.

Also, a note on Walt. I noticed on some other Lost sites that the upcoming episode with Walt's backstory is entitled "Special". I'm assuming this means that Walt is special...I know, way to go out on a limb. This would explain the dice and perhaps the polar bear.

Just some thoughts. BTW, this is a great board! Great posts!

quote:

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Originally posted by Deep Cover:
Here's something to ponder: how much of Locke's admission of inadequacy with respect to Ethan was genuine, and how much was an attempt to manipulate Jack? Did you notice how Locke had a knife for everyone who went with him, except for Jack?

The tension between Locke and Jack is about a lot more than competing alpha males. Locke's relationship with almost everyone on the island is about manipulating them to do what Locke thinks they ought. Locke postures that its about encouraging others to make choices, but his relationship with Jack demonstrates what happens when you don't make the choices Locke approves of.

If someone talked to me the way that Locke talks to Jack, I'd have decked that someone a long time ago (that is, if I were on an island without civilizing rules ). If someone let my kid play with knives, knowing that I'd forbidden it, how is that respecting my choices? By what moral right does Locke substitute his judgment of Walt's best interests for his own father's? As a dad, I'm not seeing the benevolence; I'm seeing a stranger challenging my parental authority and endangering my kid in the process.

Locke's a cool character, but he's not your friend. The island gave him his legs back, and that gift is blinding him to the true nature of the giver. He's being seduced by the dark side.

.[/B]

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I never considered that Locke might be manipulating Jack in regard to Ethan, but now that you put it into the context of Locke being seduced by the dark side, it certainly makes sense. I actually hadn't noticed that everyone but Jack was given a knife either. I guess seeing Locke with those knives is so routine now, I barely give it a second thought. And if what you say is true about Locke forcing others to make decisions, maybe that's his motivation behind buddying up with Walt. To get Michael in full "dad" mode. There's a lot more to it though, I'm sure. Gotta be.

I just thought... do we know for sure yet if Alex is male or female? Sorry, if that's already been discussed.


[This message has been edited by AuraAzure (edited 12-10-2004).]

hey i just thought of something, about the ethan = alex theory
danielle speaks french
ethan's supposedly from ontario, canada, where they speak french
connection?

Quebec is the main French-speaking province in Canada.

There are Francophone pockets in each province. Ontario would have some French-speakers, especially in the Ottawa-Hull region. Other than that, it's mainly those in federal jobs who would have a bilingual requirement.

quote:

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Originally posted by xedout:
Quebec is the main French-speaking province in Canada.

There are Francophone pockets in each province. Ontario would have some French-speakers, especially in the Ottawa-Hull region. Other than that, it's mainly those in federal jobs who would have a bilingual requirement.

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Of course, IF the writers did their research. But, alas, there are probably too many folks down here who think that all Canadians speak French, n'est pas?

What is Locke and Boone going to find under that mysterious bunker-like trap door?

Mr.Roarke and Tattoo and a bank of computers with flickering lights, and camera monitors on every wall!

xedout: "Quebec is the main French-speaking province in Canada.
There are Francophone pockets in each province. Ontario would have some French-speakers, especially in the Ottawa-Hull region. Other than that, it's mainly those in federal jobs who would have a bilingual requirement"

i know not all canadians speak french, im just saying it might be a subtle thing the writers threw in
it could be construed as support for the ethan = danielle's son thing
it might be absolutely nothing, too
im just speculating